Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Welcome to the Midlife Happiness project, where we share inspiring stories to bring some happy into your life.
[00:00:13] Speaker B: Welcome back. And today I have another great guest. I'm here with my friend Annie. She is a business owner. She's happily married. She has four kids, two sons, as well as an additional bonus, son and daughter, a stepdaughter, I should say. And we're delighted to have you today. Thank you, Annie, for coming.
[00:00:37] Speaker C: Yeah. Thank you for inviting me. I'm excited to be here. Yeah.
[00:00:42] Speaker B: Okay. So Annie has a great, great thing that she wants to share with us today, and let's just get right to it. What is the thing that you've brought to your life now that you're an empty nester? That's really brought some genuine, authentic happiness to your life?
[00:01:02] Speaker C: Yeah. So my thing has been. I had been walking the Camino de Santiago. I've done three sections over the last seven years, and in fact, just this morning, I am planning a trip to Madeira, and. And I'm going to be so close to the portuguese route of the Camino, I decided I can't be that close and not do another section. So, yeah, so, walking the Camino do Santiago has been my thing.
[00:01:33] Speaker B: Fantastic. For those people who are listening or watching the show today, what specifically is this Camino de Santiago?
[00:01:41] Speaker C: Yeah. So the Camino de Santiago is.
It is a pilgrimage, and it starts in Saint Jean de Port. And if you do the whole thing, it's 800 miles or. Sorry, 800 km. About 500 miles. And. Yeah, so there's many sections. There's the St. James route, which starts in Portugal, and there's the Camino Francois. There's. Yeah, and many of the Camino Norte. So there's several different, like, legs of the route that you can take. And at the end, you land in Santiago de Compostela, and that is where the apostle St. James is supposedly buried underneath the cathedral. And like I say, some people do it for spiritual reasons. Some people do it for just the physical. They just want to get out and start walking. And it's a great, you know, start at point a end at Z.
And other people do it, you know, for just various reasons. But it's definitely whether. Whether you go for the spiritual walk, you end up embracing the spirituality of the Camino.
[00:03:00] Speaker B: Sounds absolutely lovely. Something that I could definitely get into. So let me ask you this.
Is this something that you sought out? You were looking at this, at this, during this specific time in your life to try to maybe embrace some new challenge? Because clearly, this is very challenging. This is a significant hike. Hike, walk?
Or is this something you just sort of came about a friend told you about? One thing led to another. How did this come into your life?
[00:03:35] Speaker C: Yeah. So I'm 57 now, but I was approaching my 50th birthday, as was my best friend from childhood, and we wanted something to, like, commemorate the event. And I had heard about the Camino. I had friends who had done it just the year prior, and when they shared, they did it with their children, they shared their story. And I was just so moved and interested. So my friend and I did a little research, read some articles and watched some videos about it, and we decided this is how we wanted to celebrate our 50th birthdays.
Yeah.
[00:04:15] Speaker B: So was, was a lot of this hinging on your kids leaving the house and you wanting to sort of, like we say, mix it up and really tackle, embrace something really new, maybe outrageous, and introduce something new to your life that way?
[00:04:40] Speaker C: Yeah. So, I mean, as I think most of us mothers know, you know, when we're raising children, I have two of my own, like you stated earlier, and I have two step kids, so we had a blended family. So although I think we navigated it quite well, you know, there are challenges raising just four kids under one roof in any circumstance. So a lot of pretty much all of our time and focus and energy outside of work went into the kids, and so all the kids. I became an empty nester, and I finally got to a place in my life where I was able to think about things that I wanted to do.
When you decide to do the Camino, it is not a short trip, so you need to kind of allot for that amount of time. So when I had kids at home, I wasn't able to take that amount of time away from my family and work. So, yeah, it was very much so something like, okay, this is like my time to celebrate me, and I finally had the time to do it.
[00:05:44] Speaker B: And if somebody was interested in doing something like this, clearly there's got to be some training that goes on ahead of time.
[00:05:53] Speaker C: Yeah. So there you should definitely do some training, if for nothing else, to break in your shoes and just make sure that you're physically capable of doing the walk. And when I say a walk, you are going through wineries and hills and mountains and, you know, over creeks and you're on hard pavement and paths and through forests. So it's a very diverse walking environment.
So there's a lot of hills, especially in the first few days. So you are going to be challenged. I would say that blisters are probably the biggest challenge that people face.
Yeah. So you want your feet in good shape. I definitely have tips and pointers on how to do that. I learned after my first Camino what not to do. So I often help my friends, like, pack and prepare when they've decided to do this journey as well. So foot care is probably number one and packing light is number two. You end up wearing the same three outfits day in and day out. So, yeah, it is not a fashion show.
[00:07:09] Speaker B: So what's interesting to me is this is your thing, and yet the. These are very specific trips you're taking abroad. But clearly this has impacted the day to day business of living your life, and you found a way of taking that experience and integrating it into your everyday life. Can you speak to that?
[00:07:35] Speaker C: Yeah. So when you're out there on the Camino, all you have to think about is getting up, eating breakfast, walking, getting to your next destination, going to sleep, and starting the day over. So the lesson for me was just enjoying that simplicity of, like, day to day life. Like, just putting 1ft. Like, all you have to do is put 1ft in front of the other, and there's no big goal at the end. I feel like I've always been somebody who's very motivated, and I get up and I'm a doer and I do a lot. And so I always felt like I just had to drive and push and go. And I think walking the Camino taught me I can slow down, I could take deep breaths. I can just enjoy the community around me. And we have this thing that we talk about on the Camino. Well, it's my thing that I started saying. There's no small talk, there's just big talk. Whether you meet somebody, and I use this in my everyday life, but whether you meet. Sometimes you'll meet someone, and in five minutes, you've gone deeper than people you've known for, like, 20 years. The conversations get real and deep. So I think being out there really opens you up to having those bigger conversations. And you're meeting people from, like, all over the world. Every walk of life, people are there for different reasons.
I could probably list 100 stories of just conversations shared, but I think when I came home, you are just profoundly changed by the experience. And just really, for me, it just really opened me up. But I would say my biggest takeaway is just slowing down and simplifying my life.
[00:09:35] Speaker B: I love that. And I love your comment about just putting 1ft in front of the other. Cause that's really getting through anything.
That's really what it boils down to now in terms of how this has impacted your life, obviously there are physical benefits you had mentioned there are spiritual. I imagine for some people that translates as more or less a religious experience, whether that was the case for you or not.
But additionally, has this impacted your life in a social sense, be it your relationship with your husband, with your friends, the way you relate to people?
[00:10:19] Speaker C: Yeah.
So the first trip, I think I was saying I did it with my best friend. We ended up having two other friends join us. So it was four women doing it together.
My father was a very religious and spiritual man, and he passed away when I was pretty young. So I carried a picture of him with me on that trip and I took it out and reflect it, like, when we had quiet time.
I just really embraced the experience, but thought a lot about him. So I would say I did the first trip, even though it was for my 50th birthday. I also wanted to honor him and do something that I thought that he would have appreciated doing with me. The second time, my oldest son went with me and he had just lost a friend due to a snowboarding accident, and he was in his mid twenties and just kind of struggling with, like, how to navigate through that.
So we did it for his friend Alfonso.
And then the third time, I did it with my husband, and I was not sure how it was going to be because it had been such a special trip and it had been something that had been mine. Even though I shared it with others, I wasn't sure. Even though my husband and I have a great relationship, I wasn't sure if he could sleep and appreciate just that 1ft in front of the other. Just. I wasn't sure if he could do it without just wanting to race to the finish line. Right. And so, yeah, so we did go, and I would have to say it was probably one of the most bonding trips for the two of us. He was able to embrace the experience and I would say for sure we became closer and just spending that time and we didn't talk to each other all day, every day because you're walking, like, anywhere from six to 8 hours a day.
So there was a lot of time for, like, personal reflection, but also a lot of time to just really get into some of the deeper stuff in life. So I would say we had some of our most profound conversations on this last trip.
[00:12:35] Speaker B: Wow. I just think this is going to be very inspiring for people. I know often people at our age will do something like they've decided they want to train for a half marathon or do something physical like that. But what I like about this is, sure there is a definitely a physical journey that you're going through and you're absolutely challenging yourself, but there's definitely also a spiritual, social, emotional benefit for this. The other thing I wanted to ask you about, and you've kind of answered this in one way or the other, but listening to you talk about this, it occurs to me that this journey of yours has a really big component of sort of meditation.
And would you agree with that?
[00:13:27] Speaker C: Absolutely. Yeah. There's. I'm also a very chatty person, and I realized I can also.
[00:13:36] Speaker B: Me too.
[00:13:37] Speaker C: Very quiet. And it's okay. Like, I gave myself permission to be quiet and not feel. And there were some days I put in my airpods and I had some playlists that I made for the trip, just music that just felt really inspiring to me. And when you're tired, sometimes that's what gets you through the day. But, yeah, I would say it really helped me get quiet with myself physically and mentally.
[00:14:07] Speaker B: Absolutely. And we're very similar in this way. Anytime I've tried to do any sort of meditation, I'm okay with sitting in one place and being quiet. But it's not being quiet. It's quiet up here. You know, you do find yourself trying to make lists of things and organizing your life. And sometimes it's actually difficult to unplug and think about quite literally nothing. It's very challenging, I would say, for most people.
[00:14:34] Speaker C: Right, yeah, but I. But I would just say that on this journey, it's very easy. You just get into that rhythm of just walking and just appreciating the beauty and appreciating the people that you meet along the way and just listening to other people's stories. I think it helped me with my listening skills because sometimes when you're a talker, yes, but, yeah, I mean, just hearing people's stories, a lot of people walk, they've lost a spouse or a child or they have a child dealing with drug addiction. I mean, like, you hear all kinds of stories, just heartbreak. I mean, I. I would cry with people within, like I say, 15 minutes of meeting them. We're holding hands and crying on the journey because you just connect so deeply. And I can't really explain it. I can see I get a little emotional when I talk about it.
[00:15:32] Speaker B: I completely get that, though. And what's funny sometimes is we open ourselves up and leave ourselves vulnerable and find ourselves when we are with strangers. I mean, they're not strangers for long, but it sort of frees you from any sense of judgment or people coming in with some preconceived idea of who you are. You're just you. They've never met you before. You're sort of free to say what you want.
[00:16:03] Speaker C: Yeah, exactly. And the people, because everybody walks at a different place or pace, and they might stay in a different Alberque or a hostel at night.
So you tend to meet people and then you won't see them for a couple days. And then when you see them again, it's like a long lost friend. There's hugs, there's excitement, and then at the end of the journey, they're called your Camino family or your pilgrim family. And when you all end up in the same place at Santiago de Compostela, we all celebrate together.
And just everybody gets to, like, take their shoes off and massage their weary feet and go grab a bottle of wine and have a great meal together. You do that along the way, too. But it's like, at the end, it's just this big celebration. And.
Yeah, a lot of people go on to a place called Finisterre, which I haven't done that section yet, but it's to the edge of the earth, so to speak. So they walk to the ocean. It's another three days beyond the 800 km.
[00:17:11] Speaker B: So this sounds like something you're going to continue to do. And clearly, I'm sure you have made a huge impact and influence on your friends. And it sounds like also for people listening, what you're saying is, hey, if you've got a group or a spouse that would like to do this, that's wonderful. But it also is beneficial if you have. Have the chutzpah to just do something like this on your own. You're not really on your own for long.
[00:17:41] Speaker C: No.
[00:17:42] Speaker B: You're with a community.
[00:17:44] Speaker C: And that's what I would say. I mean, doing it alone, a lot of people do it alone. And like you said, you're alone maybe for the first few hours. But as you're walking by people, there's something we say to each other. It's a Bon Camino is basically just acknowledging that other people are on the Camino as well. And the connections happen just very instantaneously. So it's. And people have asked me, like, as a woman, do I have I felt safe doing it by myself? And absolutely, I know many women who've done it alone and met many women who've done it alone. And I'll just say, for me personally, I've never felt unsafe.
And so it's definitely something like, you say you're alone maybe for a few hours, and then somebody's going to walk.
[00:18:37] Speaker B: I didn't ask you this, but I guess this is important from a practical standpoint.
Somebody wants to do this. Do you have a guide?
How do you go about planning something like this?
[00:18:50] Speaker C: Yeah. So there's so many different ways to do it. I've done self guided. So as you're walking, there are yellow arrows, so some of the walks are marked better than others.
Getting lost is a possibility. So, yeah, I did get lost a couple times that first trip because it was a less popular route. But there are arrows. It's become more popular, so it's very clearly marked now. So I've done mine self guided, but there are plenty. I've also used Camino ways just to make the arrangements, and then I guide myself. I've never, you know, gone with a group where there is an actual guide, but there certainly is that available.
So, yeah, there's all. You can make your own arrangements. You can carry a backpack with everything you're going to need for that period of time, or you can carry a day pack and have your stuff transported. So even if you're like, you know, I'm trying to do it as much as I can while I physically can, but a lot of people can't. And you know what? There's no shame. There are people who sometimes have to get a cab or on a bus and skip a section because the blisters are just too great or they're having problems with their knees or hips, and there's no shame. Like, there's no right way to do the Camino. It's like, what's right for you is right for you.
[00:20:16] Speaker B: Excellent. I also like what you're saying right there is do it while you can. I mean, we're not saying, you know, we're not trying to focus on the negative, but ultimately, there will be a time for all of us where, you know, you have this idea of something.
[00:20:30] Speaker A: You want to do, and you just.
[00:20:32] Speaker B: Keep pushing it off, and then perhaps at some point, it's not an option. So this is like a perfect time in your life to do something like this. And I know that people listening today without a question will be looking into this, myself included.
And I so appreciate your candor and your honesty and opening up about this, and it's really very inspiring.
[00:21:00] Speaker C: Oh, well, thank you.
[00:21:02] Speaker B: Absolutely.
[00:21:02] Speaker C: I appreciate you inviting me.
[00:21:04] Speaker B: Absolutely. Okay. Well, thanks again, and we'll see you next time.
[00:21:10] Speaker C: Okay, sounds good.
[00:21:15] Speaker A: Well, after talking to Annie, I am certainly ready to start walking and do the Camino myself. And I'm sure a lot of you guys feel the same way. And on that note, I thought I would share some of my findings about the Camino and some of the things that have been written about the benefits and some kind of interesting little facts that I didn't know.
In 2023, over 400,000 people walked, biked, or even rode horseback along the various parts of the camino.
And Annie had some really fabulous things to say regarding her time doing this walk, this pilgrimage. And I wanted to address one thing in particular that she was talking about, and that's this idea of the walk sort of being a meditation. And that really appealed to me.
And it's actually a type of meditation, meditation that is called walking meditation. And it uses the natural movement of walking to cultivate mindfulness and a wakeful experience.
Some people also call it meditation in motion. I think for most of us, when we think meditation, we think holding Lotus pose, sitting on the floor, when in reality, it turns out you can be very meditative and moving all at the same time.
Turns out the act of walking can help calm the mind and focus on being fully present in the moment.
Not only does this type of meditation help with improving your overall mood, focus, and memory, but it also brings a stronger sense of connection with one's surroundings.
Another thing that she was talking about that I thought I wanted to sort of explore a little bit more is this idea of when you're doing the Camino, even if you're doing it by yourself, you're not really alone. Because by the end of the first day, maybe even an hour into it, these people that were strangers turn out to be your friends.
But that said, because you don't know these people, because they are strangers, it can lead to actually really deep, connected conversations.
And I think we can all agree that when we connect with people in a meaningful way, it'll make us happier, without a doubt.
And one study found that when speaking with relative strangers, deep conversations tended to lead to greater feelings of connectedness and enjoyment.
One might say happiness.
And for Annie, it seems that sharing the experience of walking the Camino helped break down barriers and allowed her to engage in really deep conversations with strangers on the trail. I think this is really interesting for a lot of you guys out there, a lot of women who are in their walking groups in the morning, and men, too. And we've got our girlfriends, and we go for our walk, and we chit chat. But there's also something uniquely rewarding about connecting walking with people that we don't know, it creates sort of this openness that we can share things about ourselves, maybe the way we're feeling in a way that maybe we can't with people we know.
Other things that I wanted to mention are other walks that people can do. I know a lot of people listening might feel like, well, this Camino sounds all wonderful, but I'm not in a position to do that.
I can speak from my own personal experience. I had a sort of a similar experience to Annie, although obviously not nearly as dramatic. But I did the walk for breast cancer, and it was a three. There's two days. There's three day events, but I've done that actually a few times. And one time in particular, I did it, and I signed up by myself. I didn't bring any friends along or family. And I remember driving there to do it, thinking, why did I do this? I've got nobody to do this with. This is going to be epically boring. When in reality, I had a very similar experience to Annie.
It was three days non stop walking, meeting new people every day, all day, having really extraordinarily deep, meaningful conversations with these people. And I never would have thought that. And so not only did I get something out of it in terms of the physical challenge of it, but I left really feeling like I connected to people. And that definitely, without a doubt, contributes to your overall well being and your happiness. And that's something that I think might be attainable, something that might be more practical for the average person out there listening. There's countless walks. It certainly doesn't have to be for breast cancer. There's plenty of opportunities to participate in these sorts of events, and I can honestly say that that really resonated with me.
So, on that note, go put on your walking shoes, start walking, and maybe.
[00:27:29] Speaker B: Consider doing something of this nature.
[00:27:31] Speaker A: Who knows? It might contribute to your happiness. Until next time, thanks for listening close.
