Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Welcome to the Midlife Happiness project, where we share inspiring stories to bring some happy into your life.
Have a pretty good day all year.
[00:00:11] Speaker B: Have a good day.
[00:00:16] Speaker A: Okay. Welcome back to another episode of the Midlife Happiness Project.
And today I have another wonderful, sensational, super interesting friend, my friend Lori. Hi, Lori.
[00:00:32] Speaker B: Hi.
[00:00:34] Speaker A: Okay. Lori is happily married. She's got two kids. One is just about to finish college. The other actually just got her first job, which is very exciting. And on top of everything else, she just recently moved. So a lot going on in her life. But let's get right to it. Lori is here to talk about her thing, the thing that has really just added happiness to her life, but also just sort of made her life more interesting. And Lori, what is that thing?
[00:01:12] Speaker B: Well, that thing, I think, started about, oh, gosh, over ten years ago. And I knew, you know, my identity was mom, and I had been a teacher, and before my kids were born, and I was 100% mom, and I started having this inkling that my kids are going to grow up and they're going to leave me. And I knew. And that was the plan. That's the plan, right? And I knew. I knew that this might be a big loss for me because I was very, very wrapped up up in just their life. My life was their life. My whole identity was doing for them. My husband was out working, doing his thing, and so my whole identity was mom. And I started thinking, I need something other, not necessarily, like, more. It's not. Being a stay at home mom is not a bad thing, but I needed something that was just me, 100% me.
And so I ended up going back to school. School ten years ago and started working, slogging away. Because when you're in your forties, it's really hard to learn to study, to take tests.
[00:02:21] Speaker A: Absolutely.
[00:02:24] Speaker B: And it took me four years. So by the time my daughter graduated from high school, I had graduated with my master's in counting, psychology. And so it's been, I guess, twelve years now, and I am in private practice. So my thing is I went back to school to work towards this whole new identity, this whole new career that I can, you know, I can do this until I'm 100 years old. And it brings me incredible satisfaction, which I think leads to happiness.
[00:03:00] Speaker A: Absolutely. So I think what's really interesting, not only I commend you 100%, because I completely agree that the thought of going back to school and studying is completely daunting and overwhelming at a certain age, sort of been there, done that, but so many people, I think, who feel the same way that you do. They always sort of deviate to, well, what was I doing before? I guess that's really all I'm qualified to do. So if I was a teacher, I'm going back to teaching.
You know, if I was a nurse, I'm going back to nursing. If I was in marketing, that the fact of the matter is not to say you didn't like being a teacher, but what I'm hearing from you is that you were ready for something new, something different. You wanted to inject something really other into your life. And it goes without saying, you know, you were up for the challenge because it's work to just pivot like this. And I hate saying reinventing yourself because ultimately you're still you, but reinventing yourself career wise. And so I think that's, you know, really, really commendable. And it takes, it takes courage to do that.
[00:04:28] Speaker B: Yeah. So, you know, when I look back at that time, because I knew, I knew internally that this has always been something I've wanted to do, but life happened, and I've always been someone that's a helper and someone I really like to kind of understand my own motivations to doing things. And so this seemed like the path for me. And what I found have found now along the way with all my clients is that transition is such a huge topic. People come to me, you know, in the midst of transition, and I really, I specialize in grief and loss. And so what we're talking about here is loss. So I knew for some reason, I had this foresight to know I was going to experience this loss with my kids going off just, you know, leaving us and going to school and having jobs and stuff, I knew I wanted skills. I wanted tools of my own. And so going back to school gave me that.
Now, working with my clients, I have all of these years of being parent, wife, friend, now therapist, and I can kind of help those in transition. So this transition to empty nesting and the transition to this whole other life that we never knew about before our kids left, right?
[00:05:59] Speaker A: No, absolutely. And what I like about what you're saying here is you're helping people deal with this loss, and yet that obviously plays a part into your own life. You know, obviously you haven't lost your kids. They're, they're still around, but you've lost that, that part that, you know, that person you were before who, as you said, was just full time. Two, four, seven, mom. And, you know, I guess what would be interesting to hear from you is how has you taken on this role, this new career as a therapist, has it affected your relationships, be it your husband, your friends? Obviously, we know it affects your clients, but how has it affected you positively with your own personal relationships?
[00:07:01] Speaker B: It's completely changed how I am in relationships, I think, because the whole journey, the process, the education, all the work that I've done, the training, it makes me. It has shifted the way I think, and so it's just made me a wife and a mother and a friend that can listen in a different way.
I'm able to let go of things that kind of would get me wrapped around the axle that I just don't need to carry anymore. It's given me a lot of self confidence. When we go back to this identity piece that before I was mom, good mom, I get, you know, my kids were clothed and fed and stuff and wife, but I was feeling very, like, lacking, like I wasn't quite sure who Laurie was. And so this has given me such confidence so I can be in relationships in a different way.
[00:08:03] Speaker A: Mm hmm.
I think that's. I can completely see how that's the case. And, you know, a friend's. It's just like anybody who's in therapy themselves, you know, it ends up affecting more than just maybe that one relationship that you're there to address it inevitably, you know, hopefully, if you've got a good therapist, it impacts your life in many different positive ways. So the other thing that I'd love you to speak about is what's unique about your story, that you were very, let's say, strategic about this. You had the forethought that you knew, as you said, you were going to be in this position where your kids would, if all goes according to plan, spread their wings and live their own life outside, you know, living with you? And I think that you having this plan plan in place and taking the steps before you were an empty nester is something that probably is something that people would and should really consider. In other words, it's a little bit scary for people when their kids finally do leave the house, and it's just like a slap in the face of, oh, my God, I'm by myself.
My identity, as you say, is so wrapped up in your kids, and you sort of feel this great, overwhelming loss.
And for those people who didn't give it a lot of thought, didn't have a plan, it's really scary and can be, they sort of feel like they're stuck. So what advice would you give to people who are sort of like you're saying thinking ahead and thinking, you know, maybe at some point I'd like to switch it up. Maybe I still do have kids at home. What advice would you give people?
[00:10:12] Speaker B: Yeah. So even before I went back to school, I knew this about me, that I wanted to do something more new. Like you said that I was very enmeshed with my kids, right? I was always in their world. And so I started volunteering at a lot, in a lot of different areas, even before school. Basically, it wasn't just because I was like, I'm bored. I have nothing to do. I should volunteer. But I was very strategic. So I started, you know, I became a hospice volunteer. And so I worked with people that are dying, because that was an interesting thing to me. The end of life, I worked. I was the CAsa court appointed special advocates. I thought, well, foster youth, this is an interesting population. I worked in the geriatric population, like early stage kind of Alzheimer's and dementia, because that elderly, all of these populations, there's a lot of loss. And so this was this thing. I kept going, why am I drawn to these people? And so that's what I would suggest, is that when you're living your life and just a lot of people don't really think ahead, right?
They're just so immersed in what they're doing to stop and go, what's the long term?
When I think out ten years from now, who do I want to be?
And I'm lucky because I have a husband who thinks this way. He's a designer, and so he is constantly thinking, what's that thing that we call it, the North Star? What is that thing? Where am I going? And when we can do that? That has really helped me to go, do I want in ten years, when my kids are gone, what am I doing? Am I just sitting around baking cookies for no one? I mean, I don't want to make it sound like that, but I needed something more. And so that's, I guess my advice is to really ask yourself the question, how do I see myself ten years from now? Or whatever, five years from now?
[00:12:17] Speaker A: I think that's really interesting in that you see yourself as sort of evolving, and you use the word transition, right? So we've talked about this before on the program, that you're just sort of evolving as a person, and you may retire from one career, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's over. You might find yourself saying, no, I still need to be challenged. I still need that sense of purpose. I still need to get up in the morning and feel like, somebody is sort of depending on me or needs me or. And that's not to say that as women, we need to be needed and caregivers, but again, it gives you a sense of purpose. And I don't think anybody really wants to feel like they're just sort of drifting. And you need a reason to get up in the morning. And on that note, as a therapist, I mean, is this something you do full, full time? Is this something you do, you know, a few days a week? How have you approached your career?
[00:13:25] Speaker B: Yeah, so I just have the luxury of, because I'm in private practice, I can stack my schedule however I want. And so I work three days a week, and the days I work are long. I have, like, I'm full. And so I.
I have the schedule the way I want it, so I can really be in my zone and with my clients and doing the work I want to do. And then I have these days where I can, you know, see friends and do the classes I want to do and do more research or whatever I'm thinking about. And so it's a really pretty amazing schedule that I did that play a.
[00:14:06] Speaker A: Part in you deciding to pursue this as a career that you kind of knew this would give you the opportunity to be sort of your own free agent and make your own hours. Did that play a part in your decision?
[00:14:21] Speaker B: I wish I could say it did. No, I actually thought I would be working in more, like, a facility or, like, a hospital or something, which doesn't have that flexibility. But along the way, what I learned about myself is the work that I actually want to do is depth work. And so I can't do that in, like, a short term type of thing. And that lends itself to private practice. And then I found this freedom which allowed the freedom to move and allowed the freedom to travel. It allows all these freedoms that we have. So I don't look at retiring. To me, that's not even a word I even think about, because I think, wow, I can do this work when I'm literally 80 years old.
I have some time, because it just. We just, like you talked about evolving.
It's that I don't need to be stuck. And that's the word a lot of clients say to me is, I'm so stuck, I have no options.
And I'm, like, over here going, you have all the. We have all the options, right? It's just being confident enough to take the step and lean in to this thing that you don't know a whole lot about. And it's hard, right? It's hard. Change is hard. It's difficult. But when you have that confidence, I can do this, then, like, kind of the world's your oyster, really.
[00:15:47] Speaker A: And I am so delighted that you're bringing this up because this probably is my biggest pet peeve, is when I just speak for myself personally when I take on some new challenge. And as you say, I do the work and I do the training for it, be it professionally or just personally. And you meet this challenge, you do it, you feel so great, and then somebody sort of says, oh, good for you, Sarah. I mean, that's amazing. You are so lucky, and luck doesn't play a part in any of it. I had to get up and do the work. And what I love about what you're saying is you recognize that you are in a particularly great spot in your life. You are able to move, continue to work full time, make your own schedule. But this isn't from luck. You had to put in the work. And so also recognizing that, hey, it's tough to come out on the other side and feel like I've got all my ducks in a row. And it's worked out well for me. But I had a plan, and, you know, again, I was strategic about executing that plan. And I think that's really worth mentioning because to, for people listening, they say, oh, well, you know, I would do that, but, my gosh, I'd probably have to do night school or I'm not sure how I could find the time.
I mean, we just have to be honest. It's hard because while you were going to school, it wasn't like somebody was looking after your kids for you. I mean, you still had to be the mother full time, but. And you added more onto your plate. So, absolutely, it is difficult and it is a challenge, but it's so worth it because of the end game here.
[00:17:45] Speaker B: Absolutely. And, you know, when I look back, our son was, like, in fifth grade, and so it wasn't like he was even that old and. And doing all the things, you know, I still did all the things that moms do, and, I mean, my husband, you know, chipped in. Absolutely. But. But, you know, it was one of those things where, as I was, like, literally studying for finals and the kids were studying for finals and they saw. They got to see me in a new light, too. Oh. Like, mom actually is doing something for herself, which is so, so incredible to be able, as a woman, especially to allow your children to see that you actually have a life and can give things to take care of yourself, do things for yourself.
[00:18:36] Speaker A: I completely understand.
Yes, I think that, and for my.
[00:18:42] Speaker B: Husband, you know, my husband, too, that he saw me like, oh, you know, she's independent, too. And I think for stay at home moms, I mean, I know not just stay at home moms, listen to this. But for women that have spent their time working from, you know, taking care of their kids, they can kind of somehow feel like, oh, the man's job is more important or something like that. And so all of a sudden I was like, I can't go to, you know, the kids whatever game or performance, I can't. I have this class, I have this final. And realizing that, you know, he's like, oh, I can do that, right. That now we're becoming more like equal partners in a way.
[00:19:22] Speaker A: And also what you're really saying there, which again, is a theme that we talk about a lot on the show, especially with regard to women, is giving yourself permission to do this. Right. And I'm sure at some point when you embarked on this journey of going back to school and what have you, that there was probably a moment where you thought, gee, am I going to have enough time for the kids? Are they going to get less of me? And by extension of that, will I be less of a mom if I'm not completely available? 247 and we like to talk about on this program, that's nonsense. You have to give yourself permission to do this. And for whatever reason, women have a very hard time with this.
We take the business of being a mother very, very seriously. And as well we should, of course, but pursuing other things outside the home is something, you know, it's all right. And frankly, we should be giving this some thought. It's not for everyone, of course. You know, if working in the home brings you happiness, then I'm all for that. But at the same time, if you feel like you're lacking something, it doesn't mean you love your kids any less or you love your husband any less.
Some people just, they need something more.
[00:20:58] Speaker B: Something different, right. It could be. It was good for the time. And that's when we, that's the transition. That's this, this thing was really amazing for this moment and this time. And now that's just one of the chapters in this book that's called my life. Right. And I get to write a whole new chapter now. Right. And so that's how I see kind of transitioning through life is that, that, you know, was a thing that I did. I loved that. Now I'm doing this, and I love this, and I wouldn't want to go back.
[00:21:32] Speaker A: I love to hear that. Well, you're an inspiration, girlfriend. And I know a lot of people listening are saying, you know, I don't know, I kind of always did want to, who knows, open an ice cream store. I have no idea.
You know, I hear from friends all the time that, you know, truth be told, they've always had this thing that they've wanted to do. They're not completely fulfilled and they're not ready to just sort of throw in the towel just quite yet in terms of a, a new professional sort of identity. And I think that what you've spoke about today is really inspiring. It gets people to think, I don't know, maybe I could try something else. And for those people listening who aren't actually empty nesters yet and might be thinking, well, this really isn't the time in my life, in reality, it's like listening to Lori today. She had some thought about this well before she was an empty nester, so she liked to get all her ducks in a row. And so I think. I think that's a really good way of going about it. And you've offered some great advice and on that, thank you so much for being a guest today, Lori.
[00:22:49] Speaker B: Wow. Thanks so much for having me.
[00:22:51] Speaker A: Absolutely. Okay. Thanks, everyone, for joining us today, and we will see you next time for the midlife Happiness project. Thanks.
My conversation with Lori really made me think of an expression that we've all heard. And when we're talking to somebody and they're referring to something that they kind of have an interest in and they'd like to pursue, but they sort of don't know how they're going to move forward with it. There's this expression that says, well, in my next life, in my next life, I'll do this. In my next life, I'll open up that flower shop I always wanted to open. In my next life, I'll go back to law school, whatever it is. I thought that's a very curious thing to say because sort of the whole point to this podcast is this next life is now. And certainly that's exactly how Lori has approached this particular time in her life, that she's not going to put it off. She's going to seize the moment. And despite the fact that it's a lot of work to go back to school and pivot and change careers, it was well worth it in the grand scheme of things.
So I've done a little research on this very topic of starting a new career in your midlife. And lots of people consider changing careers in their midlife. Not surprisingly. In fact, a survey by the conference board found that 80% of people over the age of 45 consider seriously consider a change in their careers.
However, only 6% of those over 45 actually follow through and pursue actually changing their careers. But for those people who do switch careers later in life, it can be remarkably rewarding. And a survey by the American Institute for Economic Research found that almost 90% of those that do switch careers later in life reported this change to be successful and add to their personal happiness. And emotionally, 72% of those that switched reported that they feel like they're a new person since switching their careers. And lastly, 59% said they can finally carry out their passion in their new career. And what's interesting about this, for those of us who have kids who are either going into college or leaving college and starting their careers, we can relate to this. Here we have these young adults who are asked to decide on what they want to do with the rest of their life. But the fact of the matter is they haven't really had enough life experience to even make that call. And so here we are at this really unique time in our life, and we have life experience, and we have this wisdom of having done, seen and experienced far more than we did when we were in our twenties or thirties. And so now we're actually better positioned to make decisions about what we want to do when we grow up. And so I think that that's kind of an interesting thing to meditate on. And just like Lori going back to school, there are tons of options to help people enhance their skills or get an additional degree if that's what your career that you're chasing requires. There are online courses like Coursera and Udemy. Those are just a couple of examples. And of course, there are local community colleges and online colleges. You have lots of options.
But with regards to Lori, I have the utmost respect for her because she has really tackled the challenge of switching careers. And it's pretty clear to me that she is living her best life in what is essentially her next life.
Anyway, on that note, thanks so much for joining us for the midlife happiness project. We'll see you next time.
